My Testimony of Working with Charismatic Catholics
Bill Scudder Dayton, Ohio, USA
Azusa@aol.com
I would like to say first of all that I am not a Cecessionist. I do not believe
the Gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased with the New Testament Apostles. They are
available to the Church of God today.
For those who do not believe the above, you are still my brother or sister in
the Lord if you believe that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone on
account of Christ alone. What I am about to tell you is not 'politically
correct' and I will be labeled as 'intolerant' or maybe even a 'basher' by some
people. I love Catholics, as I do anyone else, but it is the doctrine's of Rome
that is deceiving the Roman Catholics.
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President of the FGBMF-Peoria, Illinois
It started when I was voted in as President of a local chapter of the Full
Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship International. We had a dinner meeting once a
month and a breakfast meeting once a month. At the dinner meeting we would
usually invite a Christian businessman to give his testimony. I also held a
Bible study and prayer meeting in my home.
Some Catholics began to come to my home prayer and Bible study meeting,
including a priest. The first thing this priest did was kneel in front of me, as
if I could impart something to him. Later I knew that he wanted me to pray that
he would receive tongues. I became a friend with this Priest and we began to
attend other meetings together. More Catholics started coming to all of our
meetings and I invited a Catholic professor from Ball State University to come
and speak to our fellowship.
It wasn't long until many of these Catholics were seeking and receiving tongues.
At the time I just took it for granted that they were already saved and were
receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Priests, nuns and others were
beginning to receive tongues. I was guilty of believing that tongues was an
indication that we shared the same Holy Spirit experience, and the same Jesus.
This was due to my ignorance of the 'Gospel according to Rome,' for which I have
no excuse.
I was invited to teach a course one night a week for six weeks in a Roman
Catholic Parish, St. Monica In East Peoria, Illinois. Priests, nuns and others
were present. I taught on the gift of Salvation. At the time I was not prepared
for what I was confronting and because all present at the meetings deemed
themselves already saved because of the Roman Catholic religion. I don't believe
I addressed the subject in the right way. There was a spirit of bondage given to
them by Rome and they had a dependence on their infant baptism and other
doctrines of Rome which nullify the Gospel.
I was invited to attend Catholic Charismatic prayer meetings at Bradley
University as the only non-Catholic present.
One of the Catholic prayer groups were speaking in tongues and receiving
unbiblical interpretations of a sinful nature, supposedly coming direct from
Mary, 'the mother
of Jesus'. Which was further proof that the unsaved were receiving 'tongues'
from a spirit other than God. Charismatic Catholics often become more devoted to
Mary after receiving a tongue.
UPDATE---APRIL 1, 2003. This week Richard Shakarian, president of the FGBMFI is
in the Vatican with those who continue to develop the Catholic Charismatic
Renewal. The deception continues as this unity is based on experience only and
not on the word of God.
MARY BECOMES THE FOCUS
Many Catholic Charismatics have migrated to Mary, whom they see as the Holy
Spirit's 'more interesting spouse.' The Catholic Charismatic fellowship at
Dayton University reported to the news media that since their 'experience' they
have been giving more devotion to Mary. In the statement nothing was said about
Christ.
That does not mean that we do not honor Mary at all for her physical part in the
birth of
Christ but we cannot venerate her more than the scriptures allow or make her in
any way Spiritually responsible for our salvation.
Universalism
A Catholic Priest who was a sought after speaker in the Catholic Charismatic
movement and spoke at many FGBMFI chapters, was speaking one night to a large
group during one of our FGBMFI conventions. After his talk he gave an altar call
to come and be 'born again.' I had an uneasy feeling, and after the service was
over, I approached to ask him some questions. I asked him if Jesus was the only
way to be saved, and he said very plainly, 'NO.' I asked, 'Do you have to be
born again and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved and he said 'NO.' What did he
mean by 'born again'?
It was obvious he meant that if you received tongues or any kind of subjective
feeling, that this was proof of being born again, having nothing to do with
being born from above by the Spirit of God or believing in Christ alone for
salvation.
At that point I rebuked him for what he said and he got very angry and began to
shake. I reported him to FGBMFI but nothing came of it. There are several kinds
of Roman Catholics. The Catholic church is not as united as they would like
everyone to believe. There is the liberal that believes God is the Father of all
and no-one is lost and the one that believes that if you do good works and are
baptised you will be saved and the conservative Catholic that believes that only
through the Roman Catholic church can you be saved. Then there are all those in
between.
((The Roman Catholic religion in its quest for ecumenism is now playing both
sides as is seen in Vatican II. ""....
An article published by the Dallas Morning News on Saturday March 20th, 1999 of
an ecumenical meeting held in Dallas, Thanksgiving World Assembly, shows the
other side.
What is important about this meeting is that it was attended by a Nigerian
Cardinal of the Roman Catholic religion named Francis Arinze.
Many people think that Arinze, the Pope’s Deputy for Outreach, is heir
apparent to John Paul II. But even if he is not, his comments are chilling and
revealing.
An illustration of Roman Catholic ecumenism, which ices out the Gospel and makes
mockery of the ministry of Jesus Christ, is found in Arinze’s answer to
the question, "Can you still get to heaven without accepting
Jesus?"His answer, not surprising, but chilling and ominous, is:
"Expressly, yes!"
He says"".....Gods grant of salvation includes not only Christians but
Jews,Muslims, Hindus and people of good will." ))
WHAT DOES THE POPE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS?
Note the following quote (Dallas Morning News, 12-09-00):
“Tempering a controversial Vatican declaration on salvation, Pope John
Paul II said Wednesday that all who live a just life will be saved even if they
do not believe in Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church.”
By Peggy Polk
and Robert Nowell
VATICAN CITY, Dec. 6 (RNS)--Tempering a controversial Vatican declaration on
salvation, Pope John Paul II said Wednesday that all who live a just life will
be saved even if they do not believe in Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic
Church.
The Pope blatantly contradicts the Bible
© 2000 Discerning the Times Digest and NewsBytes
On March 26, 2000.
The popular Catholic Pope John Paul II blatantly contradicted the Bible on
December 7 when he proclaimed "Heaven is open to all as long as they are
good," even for "those who ignore Christ and his Church." The
Bible clearly teaches only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and
Savior will go to heaven and the Father.
The December 8, Electronic Telegraph reported the Pope as saying that
"Heaven is open to all as long as they are good."
POPE'S WORDS BEFORE THE "ANGELUS", VATICAN CITY, OCT. 1, 2000 (ZENIT.org)
3. The Holy Spirit is not only present in other religions through authentic
expressions of prayer. “The Spirit’s presence and activity”,
as I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio, “affect not only
individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions”
(n. 28).Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in
their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own
conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s
invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not
recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)”
(Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue
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In spite of the mistakes of being too ecumenical with those that do not beleive
the Gospel, the FGBMFI has been and is being used of God, and many have been
saved through it's efforts, but I and others, have been guilty of an ecumenical
spirit and unity at any cost. We have given a false hope of security to those
who needed the truth of salvation.
Catholics no longer a mission field?
Some Evangelicals are now saying that Roman Catholics are no longer considered
to be a mission field since they are 'Christians', as evidenced in the document
ECT,(Evangelicals and Catholics together).
What a sad commentary to our brothers and sisters in Latin countries, and others
who have laid down their lives for the Gospel, and have seen millions of Roman
Catholics believe the Gospel. The future of evangelism hangs in the balance.
In my eight years of working with Charismatic Catholics, I have come to the
following conclusions.
I had been naive and had neglected to really look into the doctrine of the Roman
Catholic Church to see what they really believed about the doctrine of Salvation
by Grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ alone. I took it for
granted that they believed the Gospel of the Bible. Historically, and
conversely, the Roman Catholic Church teaches as dogma, that justification is
conferred through her sacraments, and that it consists of inner righteousness
whereby a man, it is stated, becomes 'just within himself.' The Church of Rome
condemns the Biblical doctrine of justification by faith alone. (Council of
Trent)
Any non-Catholic Church that held the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church
would be considered a 'Cult' by many of the same people who are seeking unity
with the Catholics.
I have discovered that most Protestants do not know what the Gospel is
'according to Rome'! And are easy prey for Roman Catholic apologists because
they do not know how to defend sola scriptura or because of their extreme
armenism. Do we once again need a reformation in the 'Protestant'Evangelical
Churches?
It was the standard practice of the FGBMFI to tell Roman Catholics to stay in
the Catholic Church so that they could witness to others. I believe this was a
very dangerous attitude in that I found those who stayed eventually were lost to
the Roman Church once again for various reasons or because they had not been
truly born again. I believe most of the ones who had trusted in Christ alone for
salvation came out of the Roman Catholic Church.
You cannot stay in a Church, without consequences, that denies we are saved by
what Christ did outside of us, and not what we can do to become worthy inside.
"Solo Christo"
"Solo Christo" was one of the cries of the Protestant Reformation.
Translated from the Latin, it means "Christ Alone."
In these times, the growing tendency to emphasize feelings and experiences at
the expense of sound doctrine is presenting the world with a 'feel-good'
religious community, the boundaries of which grow more ephemeral with every new
ecumenical pronouncement. This is especially true among Roman Catholics and some
Evangelical and some Charismatic Christians. I want to emphasize that not all
Evangelicals and Pentecostals are being deceived but some are.
And the lines become more blurred, so that now in some ecumenical meetings, New
Agers, Universalists, Roman Catholic as well as true born again Christians such
as Evangelicals and Pentecostals are coming together to celebrate their oneness
in a quote, 'Common Experience.' This is the great deception.
Although speaking in tongues can be valid experience from God it is not always
of the Holy Spirit. It can be counterfeited. Satan has counterfeits of every
Gift of God. You can receive an experience without being saved, and when this
happens it leads to many problems. The major problem is a false sense of
security that you are saved, and leads you further away from the true Gospel and
many times into the occult. It has been documented that most spiritulists are
former Catholics.
I believe most of the Catholics were seeking a sign and not Salvation, and they
received a false tongue. If we accept everybody as brothers and sisters because
they speak in tongues, then we are heading down a slippery slope, Catholic or
other wise.
(Spiritual experience ALONE can never be the basis for unity.
Unity must be based on sound DOCTRINE.
"If anyone comes with another doctrine, do not receive him....for he who
greets him shares in his evil deeds."
Holy Bible 2 John 10-11 KJV.
Even though the above scripture taken in context applies to other heresies, such
as the denial that Christ came in the Flesh, I believe it
can just as well be applied to the Gospel of salvation, since they are related
and cannot be separated.
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
Galatians 5:1. KJV
Bill Scudder
Dayton, Ohio, USA Azusa@aol.com
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Permission is given by the author to copy this testimony to be used in any way
provided it is reproduced in its entirety including my e-mail address without
change.